Its hard to be clear and objective when we feel threatened in any way and its easy to dismiss a seemingly opposing viewpoint to save having to expand out of our comfort zones. It is professional astrologer Patrick Watson who does his job best. I also learned how various parts of my natal chart represented things outside myself such as people, places, and things. both schools of thought are valid for each individuals journey on this pale blue dot. So when the astrology skeptic asks The tropical and sidereal zodiacs have drifted about 24 degrees apart. Western astrology makes use of the tropical zodiac, an evenly-split 360 circle around the heavens, with the 0 Aries point beginning at the spring equinox. Make a list of your planets and their degrees as shown below. Your tropical zodiac sun sign is Leo, the Lion, if you were born between July 24 - August 23. Patrick is not just skilled at chart interpretation; he thinks like a scientist, continually working out techniques that emerged from recent translations, which, in my opinion, always contain an interpretive dimension, particularly 2,000 years beyond the writing of the text and the culture within which the text was produced. Sidereal Date Cyril Fagan [citation needed] Based on IAU boundaries Walter Berg; Aries: . All the stars revolve around the galactic center, which is currently around 3 sidereal Sagittarius (Lahiri)/27 tropical Sagittarius. interpretations is A-MAZ-ING! What are the strengths and weaknesses of the Sidereal Zodiac and when does it make sense to use the sidereal model instead of the Tropical Zodiac?. This reminds me in some ways of the debate in music over fixed do and movable do. These answers are mesmerising but providing little context on knowing your personal self in an individual level, if not making it more confusing. Each year is like one sign of the zodiac. Sidereal astrology uses the visible sky for its zodiac system. So, for example: Aries would take up 30 degrees (out of a 360 . An easy way to do this in your head, if the planet's degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. Sidereal astrology ignores this and continues to use the Fixed Stars in the same way as they were 2,115 years ago in 100 BC. The tropical zodiac is entirely sun-based and the signs are set upon the ecliptic. hobbies, I don't usually watch astrology videos. Ancient authors frequently use the rising or setting or various stars and constellations to specify the time of year. it all depends on the story you want to have in this lifetime. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! Square My Leo Pluto-Hekate-Kaali-Mercury-Uranus- Philoshophia. Here are my suggestions: Everyone knows things sound more legit if they sound Latin, and ending all the signs with an a allows them to be used as adjectives. Is the Sun more important, or are the stars? Mr. Patrick is a great astrologer. This doesnt mean we should throw out all sidereal literature using rulerships though because it could still apply to the tropical zodiac if the text came from the early centuries BCE when the zodiacs coincided. It helped me a lot. and motifs in my life. It felt like my chart wasnt looked at. The tropical zodiac would need new names for its signs to properly differentiate itself from constellations and the sidereal zodiac. Labels: aquarius, aries, cancer, capricorn, gemini, leo, libra, pisces, sagittarius, scorpio, Sidereal Dates, taurus, Tropical Dates, virgo 14 March, 2010 Whenever we look at the those horoscope columns in newspapers which people predictable do for fun, they see their dates and come to conclusion as to what their sun sign or zodiac sign (for . There are two Zodiac systems that correspond to the two schools of astrology tropical and . Whats the point of getting accurate birth times then? Tropical Astrology: The year is 100 BC,September. Leo's are strong, bold and courageous. I guess my Tropical Sun Sign (Libra) is somewhat accurate, but it also says that I'm charismatic, outgoing, extroverted, and flirty, which is far from the truth. Venus is the atmakaraka and thus in the svamsha. These examples are taken from standard astro-data websites and are combined with stock photos showing the subjects' more-or-less natural, resting expression. What does this say about what they could mean? I think God gets a lot of mileage out of people debating and facing their emotional reactions that surface in the process. Virgo: August 23 - September 22: September 17 - October 17: Libra: September 23 - October 22: October 18 - November 16: Scorpio: October 23 - November 21: . He asked great questions and explained why he saw things the way he did. The difference between the two zodiacs, therefore, is not so much the content of the zodiac but in the calculation of the timing for the starting point of the 1st degree of Aries. Just as the Earth-Sun relationship is stable and unchanging, so would the tropical zodiac reflect the regularity of life on the ship. Even the horoscope of the magazines or the books with the "predictions" of the year are. And as others have said, he has a great sense of humor; in my opinion, the value of that cannot be overstated! Each time a star enters or leaves a tropical sign, the zodiacal image would be updated. If your western sign is let's say virgo, but sidereal you are a Leo, with a virgo mercury, you ARE going to think like a Virgo. What operating principle subsumes the workings of True Sidereal, Western Sidereal, Vedic, and Tropical Astrology with the fewest secondary assumptions? For the same reason, Ayanamsha can be simply called the difference of degree between tropical and sidereal planetary positions, whereas the sidereal is true and shows actual planetary degrees. Leo (Aug 7 Sep 14) *Virgo (Sep 15 Nov 3) Libra (Nov 4 Nov 22) Scorpio (Nov 23 Dec 6) Ophiuchus (Dec 7 Dec 18) . Im very pleased with and thankful for the natal consultation I had with Patrick Watson; he provided super interesting. Currently the zero Aries point compared to the Solar Seasons can be figured out like the ancients did, that being where is the suns exact location when it hits the tropic of Cancer and does its mini retrograde that many do not speak about. I had an amazing consultation with Patrick and his reading truly resonated with me. Sidereal natal chart. It gives me some hope for the future, and enhances my understanding of struggles Ive dealt or been dealing with. This mathematical difference between the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs is called the ayanamsha in Sanskrit. Sider means star and therefore sidereal astrology is based on the actual astronomical positions of the planets against the backdrop of the fixed star constellations. Venus entered Sidereal Leo on August 31 and leaves to Sidereal Virgo on September 11th, 2022. The essential qualities of the signs of the zodiac do line up with the Sun passing through the seasons. I propose that the reason the northern hemisphere is not arbitrary and instead the proper orientation for our planet insofar as seasonal correlations with the equinoxes and solstices is that the northern hemisphere faces in the direction of the solar systems movement through the galaxy. Predictive astrologers too. I was at first a little nervous to do so, since this is not something I do often, and I didnt really know what to expect, but I found that This would work long into the future but eventually, over long periods of time as the stars shift position, they could conceivably move into a new sidereal/galactic sign. This may also bring us to question whether the constellational images established long ago by Babylonians and later featured figures of Greek and Roman mythology still apply to our modern global society of today (they still do), or if we could project our own myths and images onto the stars? I was hooked - watched the videos, read the blog; all of which I found all to be super interesting and in my opinion pretty funny. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. He is quite gifted and can do many types of readings. Yet in my Draconic natal chart, Virgo cusps my . The twelfth year, like Pisces, has qualities of dissolution and death before the rebirth again with the next Jupiter return. When considering that different cultures have had the same instinct to find patterns and fashion myths out of the stars, we could come away with the notion that there is something about the stars which represent something eternal. The stars (and the constellations) are furthest away and so represent the highest or purest ideals, but our Sun is also a star and is also the one most intimately acquainted with our planet on a geophysical and metaphysical level. Scientists will be familiar with this as the propagation of uncertainty. Nick Dagan Best is investigating this sort of neo-Babylonian approach by sussing out the exoteric correlations of the synodic cycles of Venus and Mars, with, um, astounding results. Since the Earth-Sun relationship is very stable, leading to a tropical zodiac with definitive beginnings and endings that can remain constant for as long as the Earth spins, so too does it represent things which are archetypally unchanging or eternal about life on Earth. The classical sign rulerships are as follows: Mars rules Aries and Scorpio, Venus rules Taurus and Libra, Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo, the Moon rules Cancer, the Sun rules Leo, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces, and Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquarius. The intersection of the circles of the Same and the Other shows the intersection of what is archetypally incidental and recurring. Due to precession, the zodiacal degrees move. READ SOMETHING ELSE. Many centuries before the Europeans were debating over whether the earth was flat, the Vedic rishis were figuring out exactly what effect the Earths wobble would have on the calculations of their ephemeriss! The Sidereal Zodiac is based on the fixed . God made no mistakes there! But with a name like bigfatastro, I just had to check it out. A lot of the lore surrounding particular stars revolves around their position within a constellation. Virgo: September 15 to November 3. The tropical zodiac is fundamentally based on the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. The constellations would gradually distort even without crossing any sign boundaries, so it would be less clear when a constellational image truly changes into something else. Every one of us has deficits; so knowing your true potential is definitely a good motivator in further developing it. Our north is the front of our solar system. If you didnt hear this kind of talk coming from astrologers, youd think it was coming from skeptical trolls mocking astrology. DRACONIC: Capricorn Asc Sagittarius Sun, Venus, Mercury, Saturn 11H Patrick Watson is exceptional! It's not as confusing as it may seem to understand why. How do you think mundane studies of planetary cycles through history works if not linking the right celestial event with the right earthly event? I dont agree with you on everything for instance I think if were going to be renaming signs (which, lets be honest, I doubt many will be convinced to do) that the Tropical zodiac should keep the names and symbols since it is supposed to be the unchanging one. The primary difference between Sidereal and Tropical astrology systems is where those signs are placed in the sky. (He was also super nice to me, a non english speaker. Sidereal vs. Outside the ship is the unpredictability of the ocean, the capriciousness of the weather, the glacially shifting climate. For me? With these people you'd noticed they're over thinkers because their mindset is to always pay close attention to details. Best system ever. We even celebrate Labor Day when the Sun is in this sign, so Mercury's nocturnal earthy home is in Labora. Even though we know our solar system is heliocentric, the geocentric model is still meaningful insofar as it reflects the sky as we see it from Earth. Patrick is a master at chart readings. This is why they are both made up of the exact same zodiac signs: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. For the record: Dolly Parton is sidereal Leo rising, Frank Zappa is sidereal Scorpio, Steve Martin is sidereal Cancer, Rihanna is sidereal Pisces, and Connery is sidereal Sagittarius rising. You wont be disappointed! In the long term however, the consequence of aligning the sidereal zodiac to a single point is that the sidereal zodiac would no longer be anchored to the stars in constellations but more properly to the galactic axis. Birth city: ( Enter coordinates manually ) Great article! Jan 8, 2023 - || tropical: virgo libra aquarius ||sidereal: leo virgo capricorn 21 / they-them / life path 5 requests are open What went wrong? Leo: July 23 - August 23 . He is a genius that has studied Tesla, Stienmetz, Heaviside, Maxwell and is known to be the top expert on fields/magnetism/physics and metaphysics. The constellational images alone do not provide much justification for a sidereal sign to be ruled by a particular planet. He expresses a deep knowledge and understanding not only of the field of astrology, and a persons chart, but the person themselves. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems. For instance, your Sun may move from Aries to Pisces in your Vedic chart, but you also may still have three planets in Aries, or Mars in Aries. In general the principle Im following is that sidereal reasoning should be used for the sidereal zodiac and tropical reasoning should be used for the tropical zodiac. Example Calculations:Tropical Positions Sidereal PositionsAsc: 11 Gemini 23 = 18 TaurusSun: 14 Scorpio 23 = 21 LibraMoon: 10 Virgo 23 = 17 LeoMercury: 28 Libra 23 = 5 LibraVenus: 8 Libra 23 = 15 VirgoMars: 25 Capricorn 23 = 2 CapricornJupiter: 9 Pisces 23 = 16 AquariusSaturn: 24 Aquarius 23 = 1 AquariusNorth Node: 18 Sagittarius 23 = 5 ScorpioSouth Node: 18 Gemini 23 = 5 Taurus(Optional)Uranus: 24 Leo 23 = 1 LeoNeptune: 3 Libra 23 = 10 VirgoPluto: 14 Virgo 23 = 21 Leo. Ken teaches platos divided line and its relationship with all that is manifest or emanation. Since this is subjective, there are many different forms of sidereal. Zodiacal motion runs opposite of diurnal motion. Natives that are Virgo ascendants, have Mercury as their . Scorpio: November 23 to December 6. ever done for myself. People who use astrology for stocks do NOT use tropical. Keep up the great work! Our day to day life on earth is integrally effected by the seasons and so to transpose the zodiac over the seasons works. Many astrologers missed the fact that many luminaries just jumped over the River of Heaven Pluto crossed the top of the cross while the Sun Just Transited Eris (persephone, isis, madonna, etc) at near zero point Aries as of this comment. Just . A Way To Reconcile the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs. My consultation went really well. Tl, dr: If youre thinking about doing a reading with Patrick, go for it! The sidereal zodiac needs an unambiguous anchor. Learn how your comment data is processed. We hear the phrase They both work but without a real explanation of how two conflicting zodiacs can work. As an example, as per the Western - Tropical zodiac, a person born on September 7 is a Virgo. The Tropical Zodiac is based on the seasons in the Northern Hemisphere and is the system used in Western Astrology. I explain my whole theory in depth here: A Solution To The Tropical Zodiacs Hemorrhoids Hemisphere Problem. The Vedic system is often considered to be better at describing the soul nature and predicting actual events because its tied to the actual fixed constellations. Here is Part 2 - which includes some very helpful animations. Isnt one enough? The article does not mention that there is only one recognised moving ('tropical') zodiac whilst there are many fixed (inaccurately called 'sidereal') zodiacs, several of which however are within about 3 degrees from the Babylonian practice of a fixed fiducial Star axis from Aldebaran (15 Taurus) to Antares (15 Scorpio) as mentioned by the 20th century Irish astrologer and author . I soaked up all the info that he had to offer, and as I started learning more about the techniques he uses, I thought more about possibly getting a reading. Roughly 2000 years ago, tropical Aries aligned with sidereal Aries, and while ancient astrologers were to some degree aware of precession, they didnt concern themselves with their differences since they were still small in their own time. Since the stars in constellations are unstable, indeterminate and changing in the long term from our perspective, so too do they and sidereal zodiacs attached to them, represent what is incidental and specific to an era in time. It is rare in life to meet someone with a keen intellect, sensitive interpersonal communication, a wellspring of. . I mean, I think tropical Leo is still going to be tropical Leo even now that Regulus is in tropical Virgo, as just tropical Virgo's now going to have this very specifically lion-like star in it that it hasn't had before. 25 Feb 2023 23:49:36 I was aware that plenty of cultures used sidereal but it seems the interpretations were skewed with because currently Tropical seems to be the only one that consistently . Thank you for this! The circle of the Other was the direction the planets traveled. From the perspective of the sidereal zodiac, the equinoxes and solstices could be considered akin to Nodes or Earth angles in a sense, which gradually shift backward through the constellations. It wouldnt invalidate practice of sidereal astrology because the findings made with it would relate to whats archetypally incidental. I really like his timing techniques. 25 Feb 2023 23:31:08 One obvious one would be take the 12 year transit return of Jupiter. I relate more to my Sidereal Zodiac. My website: http://www.astrologykrs.comHoroscope consultation- http://www.astrologykrs.com/Shop.htmlThe debate of correct ayanamsa in astrology Lahire vs. K.. tropical or sidereal moon in virgos. This system divides the year into 12 equal parts, assigning one sign of the Zodiac to each part. I dont know that anything went wrong. Obviously, our civilization was meant to have both zodiacs. Doing it in Tropical Virgo (most of Sidereal Leo) is weak. Basically, I had all the makeups of a Cancer rising. I can share more of this if youd like. Most astrologers, even if theyre exclusively tropical or sidereal, dont want to write off the other as just wrong. In fact, in my experience thats always been the case when I look at both the Vedic and Western charts of a particular person. From this perspective, when we look at the stars through the tropical zodiac, were looking at how whats incidental and specific to an era in time relates to whats unchanging and archetypal. I continue to read your work with interest. His ability to discern multiple levels of information and layer them within the context of the the individual is amazing. I knew that if I was ever going to get a reading it had to be with an astrologer that practiced and worked with the Hellenistic techniques - the most accurate techniques I believe are around today in the astrological world -. I had a general chart reading today with Patrick. SIDEREAL: Leo svamsha, its 12th is Cancer. It was probably one of the most therapeutic self-care things I have. Sidereal Birth Chart - Free Online Vedic Calculator. This would not invalidate astrological practice of tropical astrology because the findings made with it relate to whats archetypally eternal. Not only do the constellational images seem to be informed by a planetary ruler rather than the other way around, but the constellational images themselves reference tropical eventssuch as the Scales for Libra, where day and night are balanced at the September equinox. People debating and facing their emotional reactions that surface in the tropical virgo sidereal leo and... Correspond to the tropical and sidereal zodiacs and their degrees as shown below is fundamentally on! Information and layer them within the context of the ocean, the capriciousness of the the individual is.... 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I had with Patrick, go for it the visible sky for its signs to properly itself... Practice of sidereal astrology because the findings made with it relate to whats archetypally.! Transpose the zodiac do line up with the fewest secondary assumptions divided line and its relationship with all is... Had all the stars revolve around the galactic center, which is currently around 3 sidereal (! The next Jupiter return astrological practice of sidereal astrology uses the visible sky for its zodiac system subjective, are...